tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post2178785724740555913..comments2024-01-08T09:37:04.406+01:00Comments on RÉSONAANCES: Tinker Taylor Soldier HiggsJesterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08947218566941608850noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-88584426878743058742011-12-13T13:55:33.360+01:002011-12-13T13:55:33.360+01:00It is intriguing that this hypothetical Higgs mass...It is intriguing that this hypothetical Higgs mass is related to the other W and Z masses of the<br />Standard model. Maybe this fact need to be understood.Paolo Valtancolinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-54426963272589158182011-12-13T10:49:52.779+01:002011-12-13T10:49:52.779+01:00@12 December 2011 21:21 Anonymus:
95% CL does not ...@12 December 2011 21:21 Anonymus:<br />95% CL does not mean 95% confidence that it is a real signal. It means that you get a 2sigma effect at 5% of your studies. If there is no new effect, _all_ 2sigma deviations will go away. And if you look at the right place, the chance that the signal will go away is 0.<br />At least if you don't do something wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-6560707188127072422011-12-13T02:40:47.245+01:002011-12-13T02:40:47.245+01:00To be more precise, my fine-tuning dictionary: 10%...To be more precise, my fine-tuning dictionary: 10%=moderate, 1%=large, 0.1%=very large, 0.01%=humongous. In Kane's model the scalar superpartner masses are above 10 TeV so you'd expect FT worse than 0.01%. They argue, however, that due to some correlations between scalar masses and A-terms the fine-tuning is reduced by two orders of magnitude, so from humongous to large/very large. This may or may not be true, I haven't checked them on that, and there's few details in 1105.3765 (although the fact that A0 in fig. 2 is specified to the 3rd significant digit rings the bell...)Jesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08947218566941608850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-85072652711301807052011-12-13T01:57:15.607+01:002011-12-13T01:57:15.607+01:00I wouldn't say its humongous finetuning. With...I wouldn't say its humongous finetuning. With stop masses greater than a TeV but less than say 10 TeV, you are looking at finetuning on the Mu parameter at the percent level, which isn't that bad. (it starts getting more problematic if the Higgs had been past 130)<br /><br />Also, the analysis is a little foggy to begin with. Its typically done at the 1 loop level and you could argue that another order could improve things a little bit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-75956371868933071702011-12-13T00:46:12.688+01:002011-12-13T00:46:12.688+01:00Actually the exact phrase is "significantly r...Actually the exact phrase is "significantly reduced"! ;]<br /><br />For details on this point he refers to http://arxiv.org/abs/1105.3765 which I haven't read in any detail yet.<br /><br />Though if there is some good reason that the fine tuning is quantitatively worse than he suggests, Im definitely interested about it.cliffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16829694683805876476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-28781493379290470602011-12-13T00:26:02.385+01:002011-12-13T00:26:02.385+01:00He doesn't say the fine-tuning is small, he sa...He doesn't say the fine-tuning is small, he says it's *reduced* wrt the generic case with 10 TeV superpartners. So it's reduced from humongous down to very large :-)<br /><br />What I meant above is that for ~115 GeV Higgs one could still have the MSSM with stops around 300-500 GeV and large stop mixing. That would allow one to get away with ~10% fine-tuning of electroweak symmetry breaking. If Higgs is 125 GeV then that hope is gone...Jesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08947218566941608850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-79183302820587686922011-12-12T23:52:21.233+01:002011-12-12T23:52:21.233+01:00Just to point out, while its true that generically...Just to point out, while its true that generically much heavier scalar superpartners (stops, etc) would now require significant fine tuning, its apparently not the case of Gordon Kane's G2-MSSM models "due to an automatic cancellation of scalars and trilinears which are both close to m3/2 in this setup". Itss the same work that predicts a Higgs mass between 122 and 129 GeV.<br />http://arxiv.org/abs/1112.1059<br /><br />While I realize its certainly early to draw serious lines between the Higgs mass rumors and this phenomenology, that doesn't stop me from being extremely interested in that suggestive correlation...cliffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16829694683805876476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-55148647171291970672011-12-12T23:30:27.027+01:002011-12-12T23:30:27.027+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.PeteHHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08545699636937390967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-77120572046522857502011-12-12T22:44:49.771+01:002011-12-12T22:44:49.771+01:0017:17 anonymous here:
As far away as I always was...17:17 anonymous here:<br /><br />As far away as I always was from phenomenology, the MSSM at least had some aesthetic appeal (the weak susy breaking lagrangian not so much, but that's just parametrizing our ignorance). The NMSSM just seems icky, but maybe there was something nice about it I never picked up on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-76885025485836018382011-12-12T22:04:14.106+01:002011-12-12T22:04:14.106+01:00They have definitely much more than 2 sigma at 125...They have definitely much more than 2 sigma at 125, hence the excitement. Still things can flip, like last summer.<br /><br />Tony, 140 GeV in the SM is excluded by ZZ and WW channels, still you can have a Higgs-like particle with a reduced coupling to the gauge bosons, like e.g. a singlet scalar mixing with the Higgs.<br /><br />Anon, Higgs at 125 in the MSSM means very heavy stops (above TeV) which means large fine-tuning. But if you go to the length of introducing 100 new particles then it's easy to introduce one more, like e.g. in the NMSSM, in which case the problem disappears.Jesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08947218566941608850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-61793617660146395862011-12-12T21:48:17.543+01:002011-12-12T21:48:17.543+01:00Ok, so let's now move on to supersymmetry !Ok, so let's now move on to supersymmetry !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-78545469832312493912011-12-12T21:22:36.905+01:002011-12-12T21:22:36.905+01:00Why pissed off?Why pissed off?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-73174802233920632532011-12-12T21:21:35.384+01:002011-12-12T21:21:35.384+01:002-sigma is not a non-result. 2 sigma=95% confidenc...2-sigma is not a non-result. 2 sigma=95% confidence level. This certainly carries weight, <i>assuming</i> that all sources of error and look-elsewhere effects have been properly accounted for. Strictly speaking, if your standard is high, only 1 in 20 2-sigma results will go away. It's a shame that this doesn't seem to be what's happening in practice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-54157121092631461472011-12-12T20:13:59.239+01:002011-12-12T20:13:59.239+01:00If all they have is a 2 sigma non result, I'll...If all they have is a 2 sigma non result, I'll be extremely pissed off.Keahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05652514294703722285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-35189195405390930542011-12-12T20:03:53.315+01:002011-12-12T20:03:53.315+01:00Jester, on the likelihood of finding the SM Higgs ...Jester, on the likelihood of finding the SM Higgs in this mass range, you say:<br /><br />"...50% based on the data alone and 80% adding our sincere convictions that Higgs must really be in that mass range."<br /><br />Isn't a bit premature to assign chances at this time?Ervin Goldfainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-52071916126723768652011-12-12T19:12:33.982+01:002011-12-12T19:12:33.982+01:00@Anonymous - that's true for the minimal super...@Anonymous - that's true for the minimal supersymmetric standard model (MSSM). But experimental exclusions of standard model Higgs don't amount to an experimental exclusions of MSSM Higgs.<br /><br />See the supersymmetry section on this post:<br />http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/the-higgs-particle/implications-of-higgs-searches-as-of-92011/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-23151373186369994262011-12-12T17:17:55.664+01:002011-12-12T17:17:55.664+01:00Once upon a time, when I was still in physics and ...Once upon a time, when I was still in physics and attending a phenomenology seminar from time to time, people were saying that a Higgs above 119 GeV (really, 116 or so, but they kept pushing it upwards) would start making things really hard for susy (mostly because of the little hierarchy problem). What's the status of that line of thought these days?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-18230290773043728212011-12-12T16:50:09.279+01:002011-12-12T16:50:09.279+01:00The point of "drafts mistakenly left on print...The point of "drafts mistakenly left on printers", or in the printer queue, is always good to remember, as security goes. Also, a new one is "do not enter wikileaks and search xxx GeV from the institute IP address", and "if you search for a sensitive word and you see a hit in a blog, do not navigate to it, they will notice the search!"Alejandro Riverohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16181521111080562335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-40964464791314619822011-12-12T15:53:01.594+01:002011-12-12T15:53:01.594+01:00Noticed this very interesting tidbit from a danish...Noticed this very interesting tidbit from a danish article linked pn Google+:<br /><br />"Denmark participates in ATLAS experiment, and the Danish side is Professor Jørn Dines Hansen, Niels Bohr Institute. 'In our experiment, we have a smaller peak at 2.5 sigma, and if the second experiment, after rumors have a corresponding peak, also has top at the same particle mass, it begins to resemble something,' "<br /><br />[google-translated text]<br />http://ing.dk/artikel/124885-tampen-braender-for-higgs-partiklen-snart-slut-med-gemmestedercliffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16829694683805876476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2846514233477399562.post-34076614214547796102011-12-12T15:34:11.020+01:002011-12-12T15:34:11.020+01:00Is the 140 GeV bump ruled out as Standard Model Hi...Is the 140 GeV bump ruled out as Standard Model Higgs only because its cross section is less than 100 per cent of that expected for the Standard Model ? <br /><br />If there is a 3-state Higgs in which the Standard Model cross section is split up among the 3 states, one being at 140 GeV, <br />the other two in the range up to 240 GeV, <br />so that all of them have cross sections substantially less than 100 per cent of that expected for the Standard Model, <br />then <br />would that be consistent with the 5/fb data analysis <br />(which only excludes above 130 GeV for full single Standard Model Higgs) ? <br /><br />Do either ATLAS or CMS see bumps (less than full Standard Model Higgs cross section) in the Higgs to ZZ to 4l channel in the range 140 GeV to 240 GeV ? <br /><br />TonyTony Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06997411020615409522noreply@blogger.com